F1 and Motorsports 2009

[Guineapiggy]

For a sport people like to rag on it's massively popular and widely followed. F1 is just one of those cheap shots for people who don't have a clue what they're talking about, like a lazy stand-up comedian who makes jokes about Daleks and stairs. The excitement of the last 5 years has been palpable and whilst I don't think Jenson is the most worthy champion F1 has ever had... in fact I'd rate his title with that of Hunt's in 'lucked in to it' terms I will stand up for the sport.

Here's to an ever more tangible return to the glory days of 82 - 91.

[codename_47]

He did the best job over the course of the year and that is all you can ask of a champion.

When the car was at its best, he won. When it wasn't, he secured the best place possible on race day (After arguably panicing during qualifying...) and, unlike some, didn't bitch to the media when things went wrong.

I was listening to an old race the other day where John Watson was saying how Damon Hill could never win with the public on the way to his championship.
If he won the race the public reacted like "well, you should've done" and if something went wrong "typical Damon!" so either way he could do no right.

It was the same with Jenson really, as soon as the public got over the initial shock of Mclaren and Ferrari being no-where and this nearly bankrupt team
winning races (including Jenson himself not being sure if he had a drive, then having to take a 90% (!) paycut including paying his own travel arrangements...) it was expected that he win and if he didn't he was punished for it.

His drive in Brazil was one worthy of a champion imo, particularly the overtakes he put on some drivers, clinical, risking his championship but so brave and determined.

He did the best job over 19 races. He is the champion, luck does not come into it!

[Guineapiggy]

Other than the luck of getting the best car and engine combination you mean? Other than the luck of his rival's unreliable car powered, incidentally by clearly the weakest engine on the grid.

More, your argument seems to utterly overlook the numerous times he put in mediocre performances as alarmingly demonstrated by the fact he didn't even lead a single lap in the last 9 races. His main strength in races was provided exclusively by Ross Brawn's brilliant strategical mind which kept him out of trouble and made him up places in the pits. Saying that he did the best job is more than a tad inaccurate. At best you can say he arguably did a better job than Rubens.

The very fact that Jenson's win total increased from one extremely lucky win in 153 starts to seven in 170, from zero fastest laps to a still rather mediocre two cannot be ignored, especially when the previous three champions, (Lewis, Kimi and 'nando) currently have 11, 18 and 21 wins respectively and 3, 35 and 13 fastest laps from significantly shorter careers, (especially in Lewis' case with 52 starts), in fact if we extrapolate Jenson's strike rate of wins, poles and fastest laps per race started we find that there has been no world champion who has achieved less than Jenson Button in the history of the sport. I'm not kidding. As far back as the first champion, Nino Farina there has not been one champion with a strike rate as low as Jenson's. Are you really going to tell me that says nothing about Jenson as a driver? Even without extrapolating the numbers he's the least successful champion in any respect since Rosberg.

Incidentally I like Damon Hill and rate him well above Jenson in terms of talent.

[codename_47]

British Winners eh, the public will do anything to knock them off their pedestal.

I believe Jenson has talent. I believe Jenson earnt this year after years of being lumbered with less than amazing equipment.
Lets face it, to get to F1 you either have to have a very rich daddy, be from a country Bernie is interested in exploiting, or have talent.
JB doesn't fit the first two criteria, so someone in F1 has to believe he had talent or he'd be thrown out the door.

And that talent doesn't just related to performance on the track, this is a new era of F1 where to get anywhere you have to be fully embedded in a team and act almost as one. It was started by Micheal and Ferrari, Caused Alonso to throw a hissy fit when he realised how much Mclaren was going that way for Lewis and is just the product of Modern F1.
Like it or not Brawn was the best team this year, and Jenson was an integral part of that team, so much so it caused Rubens to go "blah blah blah" to the media when he incorrectly assumed his race strategies were being sabotaged in favour of Button.

Once the other teams caught up (and they were always likely to) it was just a salvage operation for Jenson. Vettel had much more car pace, imo, but kept making basic errors (lap 1 in Turkey, smashing out of Monaco, etc etc)
Webber took too long to get his season into gear, same with Barrichello (who given the same car should've been challenging Jenson for wins during those first races but instead drove like a first year rookie)

I guess you'll never be convinced. But 2009 was an F1 microcosm, we probably won't get a season like this again, Mclaren and Ferrari will likely be back where they should be next season. But Brawn did the best job, Jenson did the best out of the two Brawn drivers and is world champion.
It will be next season when they don't have such a performance advantage that will really be telling, I suppose.

(Also I love how you referred to his first win as a lucky one. In fact, whenever someone takes a win in wet weather with highly rated world champions in much better machinery throwing it off the road whereas the guy who wins fighting his car to desperately keep it on the track and keep everyone behind him and it is described as "luck" I just laugh.
I would imagine it is at least three times harder to win in the wet than in the dry. If it is hard to control your car in a straight line due to the amount of water, let alone the corners, then luck does not come into it. Rain is the great equaliser, takes car performance out of the equation and dammit, makes the whole thing a lot more fun for us )

[Guineapiggy]

Actually it was luck, Fernando retired from a ridiculously huge lead in Hungary with suspension failure and frankly if you'll insist it's because he's British that I'm saying this and not respond to any of the points I make I'm done talking about it.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Guineapiggy

Actually it was luck, Fernando retired from a ridiculously huge lead in Hungary with suspension failure and frankly if you'll insist it's because he's British that I'm saying this and not respond to any of the points I make I'm done talking about it.

Well there's not much point talking about it anyway doesn't look like we're going to agree, especially if you're going to be all "talk on MY terms or I'm taking my bat and ball and going home" about it.

Button toured the Mclaren factory today too, probably trying to get Brawn to raise his salary of £24.40 to something perhaps worthy of a world champion, but it does raise the tantalising possibility of a Button/Hamilton dream team.
Not that I'd expect Mclaren to change their Lewis Favouring policy though...

And Button started that Hungary race from 16th or something to put himself in a fine and legitimate 2nd place where he benefitted from the misfortune of the Renault. Bit of luck in that regard, sure, but he'd done more than enough at that stage for it to be called a great drive already, with people like Micheal Schumacher on track behind him (until the last 2 laps!) that just rocketed him to the top spot.

[Urlosenged]

Originally Posted by Guineapiggy

Other than the luck of getting the best car and engine combination you mean? Other than the luck of his rival's unreliable car powered, incidentally by clearly the weakest engine on the grid.

More, your argument seems to utterly overlook the numerous times he put in mediocre performances as alarmingly demonstrated by the fact he didn't even lead a single lap in the last 9 races. His main strength in races was provided exclusively by Ross Brawn's brilliant strategical mind which kept him out of trouble and made him up places in the pits. Saying that he did the best job is more than a tad inaccurate. At best you can say he arguably did a better job than Rubens.

The very fact that Jenson's win total increased from one extremely lucky win in 153 starts to seven in 170, from zero fastest laps to a still rather mediocre two cannot be ignored, especially when the previous three champions, (Lewis, Kimi and 'nando) currently have 11, 18 and 21 wins respectively and 3, 35 and 13 fastest laps from significantly shorter careers, (especially in Lewis' case with 52 starts), in fact if we extrapolate Jenson's strike rate of wins, poles and fastest laps per race started we find that there has been no world champion who has achieved less than Jenson Button in the history of the sport. I'm not kidding. As far back as the first champion, Nino Farina there has not been one champion with a strike rate as low as Jenson's. Are you really going to tell me that says nothing about Jenson as a driver? Even without extrapolating the numbers he's the least successful champion in any respect since Rosberg.

Incidentally I like Damon Hill and rate him well above Jenson in terms of talent.

Wow you're dumb. You say it was lucky that Jenson got a great car this year, and yet neglect to acknowledge that in every year up until now he's been, by your logic, unlucky to be in frankly shocking cars. In fact, you make it a cornerstone of your argument that he's not won enough over his career, completely ignoring your own assertions that winning is all down to what car you're "lucky" to get.

On an unrelated note, I can't wait for next season. Even with the stupid no-refuelling thing, it should be great. I hope the Brawns and Red Bulls can stay as competitive as this year.